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i have always been here

OT: Degrees earned at UM-Flint or UM-Dearborn



Submitted by Har-Boner
on January 31st, 2017 at 10:40 AM

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Since crootin’ news seems to be pretty silent for the better half of today, I figured I’d throw a question out there.

 

I’m considering going back to school for a 2nd master’s degree since my employer will pay for it. I already have an MBA from the University of West Georgia, but am considering getting the online MA in Applied Communications from UM-Flint as a resume kicker. My question is – will this degree be the same one that is printed for graduates of the main campus? Will it carry the same value on a resume, etc.? As always, appreciate the feedback!

MGoBoard
other

Comments

Wolverine4545

January 31st, 2017 at 10:41 AM
^

Troll topic +1

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NYC Fan

January 31st, 2017 at 10:55 AM
^

Despite popular belief for Ann Arbor grads and students, you can still achieve success without going to Ann Arbor. It all depends on what you want to do and also what type of person you are.

The degree can help you get in the door, but I would argue who you know is more important. Once you are in the door, your work ethic is what will carry you, not some degree.

Not everyone wants to be an Investment Banker or Consultant where top schools are coveted for job placement.

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Owl

January 31st, 2017 at 11:00 AM
^

The question wasn’t whether Flint or Dearborn doom you to a life in poverty. The question was whether it’s the same degree as Ann Arbor. Whether it holds the same value.

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SAMgO

January 31st, 2017 at 11:31 AM
^

And the answer would be no, obviously.

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freelion

January 31st, 2017 at 11:57 AM
^

As someone who does a lot of hiring, I definitely know the difference and will do my research even if someone tries to get away with downplaying the location

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Wolverine4545

January 31st, 2017 at 3:24 PM
^

It’s just that this question has come up before and it always ends the same way.

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MgoBlueprint

January 31st, 2017 at 10:41 AM
^

This should be interesting.

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shep4569

January 31st, 2017 at 10:48 AM
^

Majored in chemistry at UMF and went to grad school for the same at NC State. Now employed by ExxonMobil as a research chemist, so I can’t really say going to UMF has really “held me back” as some would like to believe.

 

The business school is growing rapidly on campus. I don’t personally know anyone that went through it, but the MBA program has exploded in the past several years.

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sbeck04

January 31st, 2017 at 10:48 AM
^

Do you think degrees from UCLA, UC Berkeley, and UC Santa Cruz all the same?

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Brodie

January 31st, 2017 at 11:03 AM
^

In terms of the question that the OP asked, yes they are all the same. 

 

UC Santa Cruz:

http://www.jungleib.com/wp-content/gallery/1971%20COLLEGE/19750319%20BA…

 

UCLA:

https://diplomaclassics.com/images/Entities/document/v2/UclaHVDiploma_H…

 

As you can see, they say more or less the same thing and the only difference is in the “given at” line. 

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sbeck04

January 31st, 2017 at 11:15 AM
^

So would you’re saying you wouldn’t make any distinction on your resume?

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Brodie

January 31st, 2017 at 11:30 AM
^

Of course I am not saying that. The OP asked what the diplomas said. 

You shouldn’t lie on your resume, not least because it’s 2017 and your employer WILL verify your attendance at any college you list. 

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HermosaBlue

January 31st, 2017 at 2:31 PM
^

Second one is UCSD not UCLA. You can tell because the top sig on the right is from the Chancellor at San Diego.

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Brodie

February 1st, 2017 at 12:48 AM
^

Actually, pretty sure the second one is a fake from a website selling false diplomas… probably a good racket if you’re a real estate agent or something, but you’re not going to pass a background check ever.

The point stands, though… here’s a real UCLA diploma:

http://www.shp.hu/hpc/elemkepek/tanorama/tanorama11613300091161332315.j…

And, for shits and giggles, here is a UM Dearborn diploma:

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Boards/796/19796/147891.jpg

And Ann Arbor for comparison:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~nirand/storage/panchi/diploma/panchika_d…

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umichshea

January 31st, 2017 at 4:17 PM
^

The California school system is not the same as one school (U of M) having two sat campuses. California has discrete schools under a state umbrella. You may have noticed the Cal Bears playing UCLA in football.

The UM sat campuses don’t carry the same prestige or admissions standards (the latter has some influence on the former) but they are most certainly part of the university family and provide a quality education. Dearborn was more selective this year than State.

Sat campuses have a Chancellor but all fall under the Prez and Regents. The branding is the same, the student tickets are the same etc. A2 handles some of the administration duties for all campuses (such as instate tuition determination). Rackham handles all three campuses for admissions applications.

In short, not quite the same as the State of California educational system.

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UM Fan from Sydney

January 31st, 2017 at 10:49 AM
^

I do not understand why some people put down others who went to UM campuses outside of Ann Arbor. They have regional campuses for a reason. They’re all part of the same university system.

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Ni

January 31st, 2017 at 10:51 AM
^

I don’t really get it either…I mean, the University gave it their nod of approval.

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UMGoRoss

January 31st, 2017 at 10:54 AM
^

No one should be put down for advancing their education, no matter where you go. That said, there’s certainly a widely held perception that the quality of education is higher on the Ann Arbor campus vs. Flint / Dearborn. Whether that’s true or not is a different story, but if I’m not mistaken the admissions criteria for most programs is also more stringent in Ann Arbor. 

I can speak more to the business school, but the quality, breadth, and diveristy of recruiters in Ann Arbor is far greater compared to the other campuses.

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ijohnb

January 31st, 2017 at 10:55 AM
^

are two types of people in this regards.  There are:

1) The people who state that having a degree from UM-Flint or Dearborn is not the same as having a degree from UM Ann Arbor, these people are largely rational and correct.

2) The people who graduated from Ann Arbor that go out of their way to “make fun of” UM Flint and Dearborn and the graduates of those schools.  Those people are as level headed and have the emotional IQ of a 7 year old and are simply trying to make themselves feel better about something by trying to make other people feel bad.

 

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Lionsfan

January 31st, 2017 at 11:06 AM
^

You forgot a subcategory for Number 2: People who didn’t go to any sort of UM campus, but praise UM’s academics and bash other schools

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evenyoubrutus

January 31st, 2017 at 11:14 AM
^

So, only people who went to UM are allowed to comment on a subject that is objectively evaluated by third parties on a yearly basis?

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Lionsfan

January 31st, 2017 at 12:09 PM
^

If you’re gonna use Michigan academics as a reason to put down someone else’s school, then yeah, you probably should have actually attended the school

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UMxWolverines

January 31st, 2017 at 11:48 AM
^

If you’re gonna say how good Michigan is at academics and say bash MSU and their academics it doesn’t really make sense to do so unless you went to a school as good or better. It’s pretty much taking credit for something you didn’t do. 

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Mack Tandonio

January 31st, 2017 at 12:13 PM
^

Lack of attendance doesn’t invalidate widely recognized academic hierarchy.

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jmblue

January 31st, 2017 at 11:37 AM
^

Have you really met anyone in the second category?  

I could maybe see someone being mocked if he/she claimed to be a “U-M grad” without ever specifying that it was Dearborn or Flint.   Beyond that I don’t think most Ann Arbor graduates have strong feelings about the satellite campuses one way or the other.  

 

 

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Brodie

January 31st, 2017 at 12:15 PM
^

These threads bring out the worst in people usually, but this is true in my experience. 

Sidenote: UM Dearborn’s bookstore only sells items with “Michigan” on it for the most part. You can’t buy a “Michigan-Dearborn Alumni” t-shirt because they don’t exist and the school actively promotes their students calling themselves Michigan students or Michigan grads. I know that people who have never attended classes at Dearborn or Flint have no way of knowing that, but it’s still shitty to mock people for saying it when it is what their professors (most of whom went to UMAA, in my experience) told them.  

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You Only Live Twice

January 31st, 2017 at 1:14 PM
^

I would not “make fun” of anyone who went to Dearborn or Flint campus.  I respect them.

If someone states on their resume they graduated from U-M, it’s assumed to be from Ann Arbor campus unless stated otherwise, so that’s misleading.  

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ijohnb

January 31st, 2017 at 1:27 PM
^

it isn’t.  First, a graduate from UM-Flint or Dearborn is not misleading anybody when the say they graduated from the University of Michigan.  They are making a factually accurate statement.  Second, you can’t control other people’s assumptions.  Nearly 10,000 students graudate each year from UM-Flint and UM-Dearborn combined.  So it is not a particularly good assumption, anyway, and if it matters that much to the person doing the hiring, they should ask.  If they don’t it is not misleading in the least bit.

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You Only Live Twice

January 31st, 2017 at 1:42 PM
^

It’s not the same coursework and it isn’t the same high school achievements that got the person there.  Would you say that getting a 32 on the ACT is the same as getting a 24?

I am not disagreeing that people can say they graduated from Michigan, and don’t have to specify the campus.  Of course they are free to do that.  

My point is, I wouldn’t say anything misleading on a resume, and place the burden on the hiring manager or HR to clarify.   

 

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Brodie

January 31st, 2017 at 1:50 PM
^

This is hella OT, but ACT and SAT scores are shitty metrics… I got a 34 on the English portion of the ACT but literally cannot math to save my life so ended up with a 25 aggregate. If I had wanted to major in English, why should my math skills even factor in? 

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ijohnb

January 31st, 2017 at 2:08 PM
^

agree with you if a person is in a position where their education credentials, alone, determine whether they are going to get serious consideration from an employer.  If they are right out of college, and are relying upon their college education (along with any relevant internships, publications, etc.) to be considered for a position, it would be misleading to only put “University of Michigan” on your resume.  However, I don’t think that is a particularly common or likely example because by and large, the hypothetical applicant is only getting consideration because of where they went to school, and the specific Michigan campus where they attended would be something that was presumaby clarified already.  However, if you are ten years out and have a graduate degree or two and impressive/relevant work history in the intervening years, “University of Michigan” is safe, IMO

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Sam1863

January 31st, 2017 at 1:28 PM
^

I’m one of those people who got a degree from UM-Flint. Do I think I got a good education? Yes. Was it as good as one I would have gotten in Ann Arbor (where I was also accepted)? Maybe not. Was it still good? Yup.

Now the bigger question: Do I spend any time comparing myself to the people who got their degree from Ann Arbor? I do not. I know some people who went to Ann Arbor and they are wonderful, intelligent, thoughtful people. Yet I know some others who give the phrase “arrogant assholes” a bad name, and who don’t have the brains God gave a turnip. And as far as the people in paragraph #2 and what they think of me, BFD.

No matter where you went, the degree is a good place to start. But what’s more important is what you did with it, and what kind of person you became after you threw your hat in the air.

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ijohnb

January 31st, 2017 at 2:15 PM
^

think one thing that shaped me well at UM-Flint was seeing what a college education meant to different kinds of people at different stages or their life.  There was a fair amount of typical, college 18-22 demographic there, but there were also people who rode the bus there after working 12 hours in a factory in order to get 3 more credits toward the degree they had been working on for ten years.  When you live in suburbia and come from the comfortable middle class and you here of people stuggling to make things happen for themselves, it is kind of abstract.  You don’t really understand what that means and how much of a struggle it is.  Going to a school like UM-Flint gave me a previously underdeveloped appreciation for how good I had it and how much more difficult it can be for some people to make it.

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Sam1863

January 31st, 2017 at 6:30 PM
^

Very true. It was the “education outside the classroom,” for lack of a better phrase.

I grew up in what I always considered an “ordinary” home: six kids raised on a civil servant income, public schools, all your needs met, luxuries you bought yourself or went without. Safe, but nothing upper class about it.

But I remember one guy I met in freshman year telling me about his life: also six kids (by three different fathers) in one of the city’s most dangerous areas. Father in Jackson for drug dealing, brother dead in a drive-by, and he’d done six years for armed robbery. But he’d decided to make something of himself, got his GED, made the grades at community college, transferred to UM-Flint, and was two semesters from a B.S. in Social Work. Plus he was just a hell of a nice guy.

It was a valuable introduction to a different world. I’m not sure I would have gotten that in a standard college setting.

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Brodie

January 31st, 2017 at 7:11 PM
^

One of the most successful dudes to ever come out of UM-Flint was Christopher Paul Curtis… a guy who came back to college part time after decades of working in the auto industry, started writing, won a Hopwood Award (UM’s student writing prize, open to all three campuses and won by the likes of Arthur Miller and Lawrence Kasden), graduated and won two Newberry Medals for outstanding children’s literature. 

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DrMantisToboggan

January 31st, 2017 at 10:54 AM
^

So James Madison is just as good as Clemson and Alabama right?

 

People just want to be recognized for the caliber of work and achievements they have completed. I agree that others don’t need be insulted, but equating programs that are not equal is also a form of insult to the people who obtained a degree from the more selective and intense institution.

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HimJarbaugh

January 31st, 2017 at 11:05 AM
^

I actually have no idea if James Madison is as good as Clemson or Alabama. How’s their earthquake simulator?

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ijohnb

January 31st, 2017 at 11:41 AM
^

It will take you to a Magnitude 3 or 4 no problem, but good luck if you want The Big One.

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ghostofhoke

January 31st, 2017 at 11:06 AM
^

Everyone gets a medal!!!

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GoBLUE_SemperFi

January 31st, 2017 at 11:23 AM
^

I get it.  I don’t want people to claim that the National Guard is the same as the Marine Corps.  

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Har-Boner

January 31st, 2017 at 12:51 PM
^

You and me both, brother. Semper Fi.

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DrMantisToboggan

January 31st, 2017 at 10:50 AM
^

If you are asking whether or not UM Flint or UM Dearborn is as prestigious or well-connected as the University of Michigan, then the answer is obviously no, they are far less so. 

 

If your goal was to get a Michigan alum to prove that we are arrogant and elitist because we put down other campuses of our University system, then congratulations you got me. 

 

No matter the answer to your question, you should always feel good about adding any kind of additional certification/training/education to your resume. No matter the prestige of the program, supplementary certification will not hurt your career. 

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Har-Boner

January 31st, 2017 at 10:55 AM
^

I had no intention of trying to out anyone as arrogant or elitist. Personally, I feel that having a sense of pride is a good thing.

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evenyoubrutus

January 31st, 2017 at 11:16 AM
^

I don’t have a problem with you posting this because it’s a reasonable topic to discuss, but did you really expect to get a useful answer out of this thread? As in, would you really have based your decision on how a few dozen anonymous users commented? It seems it would have been a better use of your time to call a guidance counselor or read some respectable journals about the subject.

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1 percent

January 31st, 2017 at 11:18 AM
^

A pride boner

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FauxMo

January 31st, 2017 at 10:55 AM
^

Not true. A Penn State degree can actually make you dumber, I think…

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DrMantisToboggan

January 31st, 2017 at 10:58 AM
^

It can certainly make you feel violated and inferior and untrustworthy of community showers.

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MGoBlue24

January 31st, 2017 at 3:48 PM
^

And you are correct.

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Butch-dontcall…

January 31st, 2017 at 10:58 AM
^

that my u of m dearborn education is shit (because i had to work full time and go to undergrad to pay for school myself..) , but that i validated myself because i recieved my doctorate at u of m ann arbor….  didnt know i was that stupid

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DrMantisToboggan

January 31st, 2017 at 11:05 AM
^

I have a masters from an institution that is certainly less prestigious than Michigan – a degree that I obtained while working full-time.

I also have my bachelor’s degree from Michigan.

You must have skipped over the part where I said you should be proud of furthering your education in any way.

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Master’s of Finance Degree Programs in Michigan (P-Z)

Home / State Listing of Master of Finance Degree Programs /Master’s of Finance Degree Programs in Michigan (P-Z)
Master’s of Finance Degree Programs in Michigan (P-Z) Rachel 2014-10-30T16:12:37+00:00

If you are interested in taking your understanding of finance to the next level beyond undergraduate studies in the “Great Lakes State,” there are numerous accredited finance degree programs in Michigan to choose from to suit your professional goals. As the largest state by total area east of the Mississippi River and the only state in the nation to consist of two separate peninsulas, Michigan may be best known for its endless sporting opportunities with the longest freshwater coastline on the planet. However, Michigan is also home to a diversified economy that is at the center of the country’s automotive, manufacturing, tourism services, and high-tech industries. For achieving your dreams of management in the state’s financial services, read on to learn more about accredited master’s degree programs in finance within Michigan.

University of Michigan

Stephen M. Ross School of Business

Situated on a vast 3,244-acre urban campus in one of the nation’s best college towns in Ann Arbor within just 45 minutes from downtown Detroit, the University of Michigan is a premier comprehensive four-year public research institution with more than 43,000 students. Consistently named as one of “America’s Best Colleges” by Forbes magazine, UMich is currently ranked as the 28th best college and 4th top public school in the entire nation by U.S. News and World Report. Even more importantly, the Stephen M. Ross School of Business is recognized for being the 11th best business school with the 11th best graduate finance degree program in the United States.

Master of Business Administration (MBA): Fast Track in Finance

With a primary emphasis on the fundamental skills that are required in the finance-related careers of investment banking, private equity, investment management, and corporate finance, the Master of Business Administration (MBA) program offers a Fast Track in Finance that features an accelerated sequence of coursework for completion in just one year full-time. While still including the signature aspects of the school’s general management core, the program enables students to immediately start courses covering topics in financial analysis, valuation, financial modeling, applied investment management, managerial accounting, and more. At the culmination of the program, students also receive the valuable experience of working on a MAP project involving data-drive analytical and financial analysis for a local corporation.

Accreditation

  • Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB)
  • Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association (NCA HLC)

Contact
701 Tappan Street Suite W3700
Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Phone: (734) 647-3400
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://www.bus.umich.edu/Admissions/MBA/FastTrack/

University of Michigan – Dearborn

College of Business

As a comprehensive student-centered public research institution offering affordable degree programs in more than 60 fields, University of Michigan – Dearborn is situated on a 196-acre suburban campus donated by Ford Motor Company on the outskirts of Detroit. With a total headcount of over 9,000 students, UMich Dearborn is currently ranked as the 36th best college and 7th top public school in the Midwest by U.S. News and World Report. Consistently named as a “Best Business School” for five consecutive years by the prestigious Princeton Review, the College of Business is also nationally recognized for having the 58th best online graduate business degree programs in the United States.

Master of Business Administration (MBA): Finance Concentration

Featuring unique coursework in Applied Integrated Management, the Master of Business Administration (MBA) program is designed to offer an integrated interdisciplinary perspective for qualified graduate students of any undergraduate major to solve today’s most complex business concerns. Within the 36 to 48-credit program available full or part-time, students are required to complete a strong business core with courses in economic analysis, corporate social responsibility, applied statistical modeling, financial fundamentals, computer information systems, organization behavior, operations management, and marketing. For more breadth of learning in preparation for starting a career at any financial institution, students have the option to select a Finance Concentration with just three extra courses.

Master of Science in Finance (MSF)

Available on-campus, online, or through any hybrid combination of the two, the Master of Science in Finance (MSF) program is designed to provide the specialized graduate training that is increasingly necessary for success in financial professions in today’s competitive business marketplace. Ideal for graduate students seeking careers in corporate finance, investment management, or financial institutions, the 30-credit program can be completed in as few as 10 months of full-time study. Regardless of students’ undergraduate major, the intensive curriculum will provide an in-depth understanding on all finance fundamentals while building strong quantitative and analytical skills for making sound financial business decisions.   University of Michigan Dearborn’s online Master of Science in Finance program was ranked number six of the top ten best online master of finance degree programs for 2014 by our editors .

Accreditations

  • Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB)
  • Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association (NCA HCL)

Contact
19000 Hubbard Drive
Dearborn, MI 48128
Phone: (313) 593-5460
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://umdearborn.edu/cob/grad-programs/

University of Michigan – Flint

School of Management

As a comprehensive public research institution in the world-renowned university system that offers the intimacy of a small college with just over 7,000 students, the University of Michigan–Flint is based on a 73-acre urban campus in the heart of the “birthplace of General Motors.” With students reporting an overall level of satisfaction that is significantly higher than the national average, UM-Flint is currently ranked as the 92nd best college, 32nd top public school, and 27th best university for veterans in the Midwest by U.S. News and World Report. Moreover, the School of Management is distinguished for having the 114th best part-time MBA program for graduate students in the nation.

Master of Business Administration (MBA): Finance Concentration

With seven concentrations available in a range of specialized business fields, the Master of Business Administration (MBA) program is strongly based on team-based project work for experiential learning that trains graduate students with the most successful business strategies for innovation, risk management, decision making, and more. Students who choose the Finance Concentration are able to develop the professional competencies needed to work at a high level of expertise in all areas of finance, including investment banking, corporate finance, venture capital, asset management, and mergers and acquisitions. While the traditional on-campus program consists of 20 to 32 months of evening classes, the innovative mixed-mode program through NetPlus! requires the completion of just 15 to 24 months with on-campus sessions every six weeks on weekends.

Accreditations

  • Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB)
  • Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association (NCA HLC)

Contact
303 East Kearsley Street
Flint Township, MI 48502
Phone: (810) 237-6676
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://www.umflint.edu/graduateprograms/business-administration-mba

Walsh College

Graduate School of Business Administration

Based on a 30-acre suburban campus in the town of Troy with satellite locations in Novi, Clinton Township, Port Huron, and online from anywhere with an internet connection, Walsh College is an independent non-profit institution that focuses on delivering high-quality business education at the bachelor’s and master’s degree levels. With accreditation through the Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP), Walsh offers 17 business-related degree programs that blend theories with real-world experience to boost career success.

Master of Science in Finance (MSF)

Since of the most essential attributes of a successful executive in today’s competitive business climate is the competency to form decisions based on key financial issues, the Master of Science in Finance (MSF) program is designed to prepare tomorrow’s future business leaders with a comprehensive understanding of investments, financial analysis statements, venture capital markets, interest rates, and more. Within the 36-credit program, students are given the freedom to choose a concentration in Financial Management, Financial Services, or Managerial Economics depending on future career goals. Graduates will be well-equipped with the abilities needed to assume the role of senior financial and/or cost analyst in the lucrative banking, insurance, and financial services industries.

Dual MBA/MSF Program

For qualified graduate students who desire both the broad-based education of the Master of Business Administration (MBA) as well as the emphasis on financials from the Master of Science in Finance (MSF), Walsh College offers a unique dual degree program to earn both master’s credentials concurrently with just 60 credits. Within the rigorous curriculum, students are required to take courses in communications, business analytics, financial accounting, marketing, financial management, operations management, information technology, financial markets, global economics, business law, investments, and a capstone project. Students are still given the opportunity to concentrate their studies in Financial Management, Financial Services, or Managerial Economics based on professional objectives.

Accreditations

  • Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP)
  • Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association (NCA HLC)

Contact
3838 Livernois Road
Troy, MI 48083
Phone: (248) 823-1610
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://www.walshcollege.edu/financemastersdegree

Wayne State University

School of Business Administration

Since first being established in 1868, Wayne State University has grown to become a nationally recognized metropolitan public research institution based on a 200-acre urban campus in Midtown Detroit with six satellite extension centers scattered across southeastern Michigan. As home to nearly 29,000 undergraduate and graduate students, Wayne State is widely recognized for having the most diverse student body among all of the state’s public universities. Furthermore, the School of Business Administration is nationally acclaimed for having the 110th best online graduate business programs and the 196th best part-time MBA program by U.S. News and World Report.

Master of Business Administration (MBA): Finance Concentration

Available with flexible full or part-time options at the Midtown Detroit campus, WSU Oakland Center in Farmington Hills, and online from the comfort of home, the Master of Business Administration (MBA) program is designed to provide an educational foundation for success that will open professional doors in the business network of the surrounding Metro Detroit. Whether graduate students are seeking to land their first job or are on their way towards achieving an executive suite, the MBA program offers 13 new concentrations to better match the degree with future professional goals. Students who choose the Finance Concentration will benefit from a more in-depth understanding of money management with courses covering international finance, capital markets, investment policies, corporate financial analysis, and more.

Accreditations

  • Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB)
  • Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association (NCA HLC)

Contact
42 West Warren Avenue
Detroit, MI 48202
Phone: (313) 577-8524
Email: [email protected]
Website: https://business.wayne.edu/mba/index.php

While there may be professions available after earning an associate’s or bachelor’s degree in finance, it is typically recommended that individuals seeking high-level management positions in financial institutions further their education by earning a master’s degree. Luckily, these are just some of the accredited finance degree programs in Michigan that can help you open more advanced doors in the competitive business world.

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